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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 16, 2010 1:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: disappointing

A couple of years ago, I was part of a unique consortium of traders who all belonged to a gd hub. Now granted the hub was private and you had to be invited in and given the p/w to get it. those were the days - EVERY SHOW EVERY YEAR EVERY SOURCE. Then one horrible day - POOF! It was gone.
I really did not mind because I had downloaded every show and converted the shns to audio so I was able to listen to them in my car, etc. However, that was about 6 years ago and now that I have lost some sets and shows along the way, I decided to come back and fill in the blanks. NOT. I have just discovered that I cannot download all of the dead shows that exists. WTF? This is an outrage. and this BS policy runs counter to the basic tenants of Jerry's musical philosophy. Jerry, when asked his rationale behind his liberal views on sharing his music said "When I am done playing the note, it's gone, it's not mine anymore. what people do with it is their business as long as they don't sell it." So - I ask - what happened? Why can't I download any show I want? it is what Jerry wanted and now that he is gone there is nobody to stand up to this ridiculous policy.
I can't believe this - let me guess - the almighty dollar is behind this. unbelievable and this is a total disgrace to the music of Garcia.

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Apr 16, 2010 1:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing


You can download the AUD's from Archive.

For SBD's you need to use bit torrent as it is not 'hosted', apparently the peer-to-peer is more 'tradelike' so is still available.

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Poster: WHARFRAT Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Have to agree with grover.
once in a while you can get shown the lite!
YA JUST HAVE TO POKE AROUND.
There are TONS of grate people here who would gladly
help you find what you seek.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

i do appreciate your responses but my point is being missed.








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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

You're point is a dead horse! It's been pummeled beyond recognition and here you are with your list out. Go ahead, take your shots, we've all done it.

Stick around for a while. Join this community, all are welcome. The vast majority of GD recordings are readily available, just not at this site. LMA is the best place to share the music and our opinions. I think you'll find direction to all the music you'll ever need if you simply hang around.

The Jerry quote is really the dead horse. Do some forum searching and you'll find some civilized and some less-than-civilized debate regarding this topic. You'll enjoy the mayhem.

Again, welcome.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 6:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

well...... that is mighty nice of you. er - i have been coming here probably from the time you were in diapers.

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 19, 2010 9:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

I took off my diaper on 4/14 and mailed it to the IRS. So actually, since this is your 1st post, I beat you by 1 day.

Disappointed again. Drat for you.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

? oh. bec i do not post daily (i have a job and a family) that must mean i just got here. i have been on this site for a long long time. you obvioulsy do not read very critically or else you would have extracted the fact that my very words imply a familarity to the site.

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Man. You are a humor-less crank. Good day.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

but i wasnt asking for your 2 cents. i was asking for soundboards from '73 and '74.

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Wait a goddamn minute. You introduced yourself here with an infantile rant about what you wanted.

I politely responded with advice and a welcome. You replied with the same lack of courtesy as your original post. Since then you've posted daily, but your posts have been pointless.

I know you DON'T want MY $.02. It's clearly all about J, isn't it.

Welcome the world of internet forums. It's full of self-important douche-bags just like you.

Now go get your SBDS and STFU. Please.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

go fuck yourself you piece of shit. do not think you are gonna get away with talking to me that way you motherfucker.
NOW I DID NOT COME IN HERE AND START CURSING AT PEOPLE BUT NOW YOU HAVE PISSED ME OFF YOU LITTLE FUCK.

you little coward pos. go fuck youself you little rodent

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Your true colors are beautiful. Like a rainbow.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

and you cant even read you mindless waste of sperm. curse at me will you? you god damn idiot.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Apr 16, 2010 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

point missed??? or just pointless.....

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

if you responded back with nonsense, then yes, it was by all means pointless

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Your point wasn't missed but it has been discussed ad nauseum since the band decided to not allow the site to allow access to the sbds back in Nov 2005.

The problem with your point is that even Jerry was not consistent on that as you can find plenty of interviews where he expressed the opposite feeling about the music and the band was very anti-taping into the '70s. There are plenty of stories including some repeated here about tapers having their tapes taken or mic cables cut. I should also point out that while there are plenty of sbds floating about of Grateful Dead concerts they are not as easy to be found for JGB shows. So the music is free philosophy was not that consistent. Besides when Jerry did say that stuff people were taping concerts and distributing multi-generation cassette tapes by snail mail. You can't really say you know how he would feel about free unlimited access to pristine copies of soundboards......unless you have talked to Jerry about this in last 10 years.

Be happy that you have as much access to the music as you do. There are plenty of bands that only allow uploading of aud recordings. How much would it suck if we couldn't even stream the sbds here? It actually went down that way back in Nov '05, at least originally and it sucked a lot.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Hey elb--and for others that I know are sick and tired of this, and esp the legalistic sorts, I still don't know what I think about it all...I am not sure that Jerry's quote can be viewed as "out of context" as it seems so crystal clear (that is what he was talking about--taping, right?). All the other contradictions you rightly note, COULD (note I say "could") be classic Jerry: Bob, the roadies, whomever, said "hey, they're stealing our show!" and so on and so forth...we have no CONTRARY quote to the former, oft cited quote, from Jerry...thus, HE never appears to have changed his mind, in print or oral interview, near as I can find.

I think of it in terms of a court case when I am in my death bed and you show up and say hear's a tape recording he gave me when we discussed it: "pull the plug if it evercomes to this, me in a deathbed, elb, please!" It would be open and shut, even if all the "somewhat contradictory actions" at later dates by OTHER personnel was brought as counter evidence...see what I am getting at?

Again, even JGB evidence is not necessarily "direct Jerry" evidence...

Now, none of this is to support the pissed off position of our new found poster, but just to reinforce that I am not so sure Jerry wouldn't be fine with getting his bucks from ice cream and ties, paintings and the like, and have no problem with all of this techno exchange...of course, we don't know, but from all I have learned of Jerry, I conclude he'd be okay with it...just MHO, of course.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 16, 2010 6:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

There was an interview posted here about a year or so ago of Jerry in '73 and he was clearly not thrilled with taping. He was discussing the right of musicians to make money and other things. So I think there is evidence that he was not always of the belief that it was okay. I'll try to find it, i think Bluedevil posted it but not sure.

As for the quote taken out of context, i don't think I actually claimed it was, however i think it is now used out of context as the world has changed so much in the last 20 years and how music is distributed as well as the fact that bands can sell soundboards of shows on the internet might have changed the equation. There is no way to know if Jerry's opinion would have changed given all the other changes that have occurred. I suspect that you can find quotes in the '70s that would have countered the idea of selling ties or receiving royalties from an ice cream brand or a wine label. You are correct, Jerry was talking about taping and as best i can figure the tapes people made at concerts are freely available to download at this site. But thats not good enough. We need soundboards (which are still available through other sources) and the ability to get them for free with a click of a mouse. Kind of reminds me of Bill Graham during the encore on 4-29-71. More, more, more is that all you can say?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 16, 2010 8:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

True enough (the tapes vs sbds issue--hadn't thought of that).

Of course, all I really want to do is keep Jerry in the early era time capsule (just like I do the music!), and don't want him "changing"...which of course, is the more likely outcome as he aged, so I know it's an uphill battle for me to take this position.

But, that's my job here, right?

Good chatting bout it, if even for the 100th time! At least I always like considering all the angles (but again certainly do not agree with the angry posts about what we deserve, etc; purely academic speculation, per usual, as to why I like kicking it around [did Jerry change? did he move on from the 60s ideals like so many of us? blah, blah, blah...not that 'SBDs for free' can really be a "60's ideal", eh?]).

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Did you read my mind...
See post below with a similar time stamp.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

I had the same thought!!! I read yours and said to myself, "damn i should have read that before i went off and then noticed that they were posted within seconds of each other"

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Apr 16, 2010 3:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

From the web 2005:

"Archive.org has been forced to take down over 1000 soundboard recordings of the Grateful Dead by Jerry's wife and a few (perhaps one) remaining member of the band."

John Perry Barlow, EFF co-founder and former Grateful Dead lyricist, tells Boing Boing:

You have no idea how sad I am about this. I fought it hammer and tong, but the drummers had inoperable bricks in their head about it"

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 16, 2010 7:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Much as I love Jerry, I don't understand why these discussions always assume that Jerry's opinion and what Jerry might have wanted, could we speak to the dead or could we be certain we are properly extrapolating from this or that Jerry quote, forward to the age of digital media, is the only thing that counts.

That was a convoluted sentence but what I'm trying to say is Jerry's daughters and ex-wives and even his widow (we don't have to like her but he did marry her), Bob's family, Phil's family etc., and the many other people whose livelihood long depended on the Grateful Dead, into posterity, also have a right to benefit from this material. Sometimes I think deadheads are a bit infantile. The idea seems to be, everything should be free to me forever, because I like it. Why? Do you all give away your own work for free? Would your dependents be pleased if you did that? Or do you feel like maybe your own kids have a right to, say, go to college with some of your money?

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Poster: cush212 Date: Apr 16, 2010 10:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Got no kids, got no money, am happy with what I do get...

;)

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 17, 2010 3:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

LOL, well then you're living the life :)
But the Boys have both money and kids ... lots of both. I know they are wealthy and we don't have to worry how they're scraping by. I'm just saying I don't think we should begrudge them parceling out some of the goodies to their own families as well as to the rest of us.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 17, 2010 4:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

And isn't it ironic that in fact all or most of the music is free for listening, just not for taking and owning, yet that's the complaint of Deadheads?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 17, 2010 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Hey Ring-O; I've been taking a purely academic perspective above that is a bit counter to some of what has been posted but NOT because I don't want "them" to get all they deserve/can/etc. But, do note that Phil Lesh WAS one that did NOT agree with the pulling of the SBDs. Nor was Barlow. So, some do think it's a wise biz decision, while others, for whatever reason, do not.

As I outlined above, I think that in fact, until "data" are in on profit margins, it is in fact still debatable that a hardline approach vs a "let em have them" is best for profits for those concerned...it seems it is not settled...again, I am defn NOT one that "wants it all for free" and I in fact pay for EVERY release of "my" era each and every time it comes out.

Hey MS: I'd gladly buy up EVERY CREAM release if they remixed and upgraded those SBDs of the shows we share!

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 18, 2010 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

saving a 100+ jobs at GDM was one of the main reasons given for pulling the entire collection Nov 05 - followed by contracting out intellectual property to Rhino and layoffs within a year...



"I'd gladly buy up EVERY CREAM release if they remixed and upgraded those SBDs of the shows we share!"

i probably wouldn't have w/o first hearing a taste, you might have very well bought them anyways, knowing your penchant for what i like to refer to as incorporeal energy swathed in over driven vacuum tube harmonic distortion ..."Clapton is god" wasn't written on subway walls for his voice :)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 18, 2010 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

"penchant for what i like to refer to as incorporeal energy swathed in over driven vacuum tube harmonic distortion"

That's me! The "clipped" recordings though, do bother me a tad--hoping against hope the SBDs could be tweaked (?) to reduce that with CREAM...

The point you make about layoffs, prec'd $ making opportunities, etc., though, is where I still have questions as outlined above (was it a good biz decision?, etc., etc.).

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 18, 2010 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

10/15/67 is quite listenable, not to say there isn't a lot of room for improvement with some pro enhancement...not to sound ungrateful, but 9/3/67 is the one i have issues with, gave up 2 tracks into it, is it worth persevering?


check this out, McLaughlin directly quotes Sunshine during his epic "Dream" (Between Nothingness and Eternity - live Central Park - my fav Maha) as well as an odd time theme that is based on Clapton's accompaniment during Rollin and Tumblin'...unfortunately only the 2nd half of the monstrosity was uploaded, this clip starts in the middle of Goodwin's solo with the last of the Sunshine quotes, then segues into variations on a'Rollin' theme (in odd time, of course!) with John/Billy a'tumblin'...boys will be boys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBhKy9XGPy4

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 18, 2010 11:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

sorry to say, probably not, I only sent that one cause of how good fall, 67 was...but fear not; the shows I have in hand more than make up for it!

BTW, do you have Trader's Little Helper? IE, it would be much better if I can send you a couple DVDs with the SHNs/FLACs and you convert to WAVs to burn, or use as you see fit if you have fancy pants players...this would also give you all the "info" and artwork, etc, etc. Plus, the studio disks will show you JB can/could DEFN sing, and even EC wasn't too bad in 66-67.

Pt being, I wouldn't have to burn you all the ind CDs...you would do that. TLH is FREE, just google it if you aren't already familiar.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 18, 2010 12:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

don't know why i didn't think of DVD's cause that's how i've been storing my data...Flac Frontend or MKW should do the trick at this end (and about time to start making full use of the i-pod anyways)

thanks!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 19, 2010 9:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

CK for a message at Hook...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 18, 2010 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: in the name of energy...

Perfect! Will do that sometime soon...

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Apr 16, 2010 10:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

"Jerry never lived in a world of instant downloads of 100% digital media. What would his opinion be? Can any of us know for sure?"

It doesn't mean that he was not in tune with this idea. There is an interview tape with David Gans and Dan Healy done backstage at one of the Greek Theatre shows in the 80s. "Someday there will be a website; where you can download everything in the vault." And this archive did not even exist in those days. There was some suggestion that we pay an annual fee for access to the whole enchilada; so it wasn't supposed to be a free lunch either.

Gans keeps most of his taped interview stuff and it sometimes resurfaces at a later time. Lookout for this Greek stuff on your old tapes...

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Aug 11, 2010 4:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

I understand your sentiments, believe me. Unfortunately the Dead do have every right to make the archive withold these recordings; at least we can still stream them!

That said, there are ways around every barrier. Let me know if you need any help.

This post was modified by midnightcarousel on 2010-08-11 23:37:32

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 19, 2010 7:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

if only Bill Graham would have got his way and had his moat built, and filled with burning oil around the Woodstock venue, the music industry would be a different scene today.

When I read your post I'm reminded of a pig wallowing in his own shit. Grow up !

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Grow up? hmmmm. very interesting. i find it ironic that you cuss and rant and rave in one sentence and in your next sentence you tell someone else to grow up. interesting. i pity you. i am not going to fly off the handle, stoop to your level and respond in kind. i just really pity you and look down on you. you obviously are not a very intelligent person.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

LMAO you know what I find interesting about you?....Nothing

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

well. if you DID find something interesting about me based on this brief and specific communication then I would think you were lying. so....... what's yer point besides a desperate attempt to discredit me.
again - I say I was not asking for your opinion. I was asking for sbd's from some specific years.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Well, there mostly all here for listening pleasure, enjoy your stay

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

what i was saying is that based on my many years of intimate knowledge of the dead and their taping policies, it is a disappoitment that the sbd's (the ones worth d/l) are not here.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 19, 2010 11:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

yep

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 19, 2010 8:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Hey Hip--I am not sure if I caught your drift...in a sense, Bill's (joking?) comment at Woodstock is the logical extension of "everybody's got to pay", whereas your other line, about pigs, implies you do not agree with the poster wanting it for "free". Now, I am assuming you don't agree with Bill (you were being sarcastic), or is it that you do? Agreeing with him seems in line with saying "grow up"...or am I missing something?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

"I have just discovered that I cannot download all of the dead shows that exists. WTF? This is an outrage."
To me this is pigg-ish behavior.
"EVERY SHOW EVERY YEAR EVERY SOURCE. Then one horrible day - POOF! It was gone.
I really did not mind because I had downloaded every show and converted the shns to audio so I was able to listen to them in my car"
Now , just because they had it, and no longer don't is not the fault of the GD. The fact that the GD can longer accomadate every heads wish to have very Dead show that exist is ridiculous , To me this individual ( I assume but online handle confuses that issue for me ).
". and this BS policy runs counter to the basic tenants of Jerry's musical philosophy. Jerry, when asked his rationale behind his liberal views on sharing his music"
First off, on the JGB vs. GD Imo why the taping was NOT as casual as GD shows is I think because Jerry covered many artists that I'm sure required royalties to preform there songs ? probably alot more so than the GD This opinion is based on nothing, just my opinion. Not to mention , Maybe Melvin, Merl J.Kahn, his cool backup singers weren't down with "Lets give a free copy of this show to whomever wants. Again, for me a ridiculous arguement worthy of a pig wallowing comment if ever deserved.
Sure Jerry was a cool MF be grateful he shared what he did, and when something fresh comes along ......Well, makes it that much cooler.
"and now that he is gone there is nobody to stand up to this ridiculous policy.
I can't believe this - let me guess - the almighty dollar is behind this"
Man, where to start with this? Good Lord, to easy, I'm not touching it w/ a the proverbial ten foot pole. Bill Graham, P.T. Barnum 2 great promoters, Whats wrong with making money? You have a marketable product whats wrong with selling it ? The woodstock crowd to me missed the point, of the promoters making it a free event (although not for the individuals that actually paid) I mean people lost serious money on that event, . Really no problem now , I'm sure everyone, has recouped many times over. But the point remains that they (the free admissions) missed it, which then set a bad precident, which lead to Altamont, Festival Express, Ilse of Wight, and now this idiot whining he can't get EVERY sbd. WT bloody F. Sorry WT but part of me DOEs agree w/ Bill G. Does that make me misguided ? I'll leave everyone to thier own opinion

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

No problem at all, hip! I got you now, loud and clear...and, I always thought BG was okay, frankly.

It was just that I thought you were being sarcastic with Bill, and then serious with the poster, but it makes perfect sense now...

Just my bad; mis-read...thanks.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 19, 2010 1:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

hey hippie64, agree with a lot of what you say, but i don't think you are correct regarding royalties...no money exchanges hands during P to P trading and unlike radio/tv the Archive is a "library" that doesn't sell advertising (despite Krautzman's ridiculous claim to the contrary last summer)

anyways, i believe the blank cd/tape (and now HD's?) tax was implemented to compensate in lieu of...

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Apr 19, 2010 1:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

I my naive attempt at sopporting the band, I ended up purhasing MORE than a few illegel bootlegs through varios hole in the wall record stores Has the entire Cornell '77 ver been released in it's entirity ? I bought one , (I was ignorant0 paid 75 bucks for it.
I didn't bring this point up in my initial argument becauswee I don't have the facts. The last post covered my opinion only.
But back to what I was saying is (what was I saying) Oh, yeah, I feel badly that I know that money went into some heads stash fund and it sux it didn't go to the Dead. How they got them, through P2P .... mayb
Thank you baby Jesus for ANY free stuff we get in this world.

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Poster: tigerbolt Date: Apr 16, 2010 3:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

"Fuck 'people's music'." laughs Jerry Garcia from a reclining seat in the plush, wood-finished business offices of the band. (The comfortably expansive cluster of rooms are located in a streamlined San Rafael complex.) "I mean, I thought it was a dumb discussion even when it was the big thing awhile back to talk about how music should be free... that music belongs to the people and musicians rip them off. That kind of thing really irks me.

"It's like, in order to get so you can play music you have to sacrifice a lot of what would have been your normal life. You know what I mean? For lack of a better phrase, you have to pay the dues to get so you can play music. It's not a thing you just do. If that were so, everybody'd be making their own music and there wouldn't be professional musicians. There'd be no need for them. For someone to deny the fact that you spent a certain amount of your life working on some sort of discipline and learning how to play... that's the rip-off. That's the state versus the individual. Anytime someone comes down on artists and claims their work on any level, I think that's pure bullshit. There's been too many great musicians who died poor. People's music... it just ain't so."


http://www.cameroncrowe.com/journalism/articles/crowe_jrl_dead.html


with that said you can get any show that circulates at
bit torrent sites.

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Poster: Reade Date: Apr 17, 2010 9:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

And let's not miss another quote from Jerry in the same article link posted:

"My feelings towards all that shit was that I should have never, ever, opened my mouth to anybody, ever, at anytime in my life."

There's always the risk of trying to put too fine a point on comments made. (The world has changed a great deal as several have pointed out).
Some here may remember in 1970 or so there was a huge thing around 'music should be free,' that performers who charged money for performing were ripping people off.
The 'Festival Express' film documents this perfectly. In fact there's a scene in which Jerry is passionately addressing the matter to someone (who is off camera). He's refuting the idea thar rock musicians were getting rich, were ripping everybody off, should be performing for free as a public service as a result, etc., etc.

He's painitng with a broad brush here and simply saying that the idea that it's wrong for professional musicians to make money for playing music is nonsense.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 17, 2010 12:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Yeah, it is harder and harder for me to retain the 60s era Jerry (as I did in my other posts here). Again, as I pointed out, I think if you want to split hairs (as I always do), you could imagine Jerry was able to distinguish "we get paid to play (tickets), and we get paid for albums (tapes, CDs, whatever), and that's all we need--BUT we need it!" and then retain the OTHER quote we often quote as standing (ie, that he had no problem with the tapes--maybe even SBDs?), but I know it looks less and less likely he'd split that hair too...but, we just don't know.

A point I often raise, and that I think our own Phil Lesh would agree with, BBarlow too, is that we still don't know the degree to which free SBDs diminish the returns on all other commercial products.

I know we have debated it, and some say "I won't buy it if I have a crispy SDB" but many do (me, many others). IE, each time an early era RT or whatever is released.

So, the Jerry of the 60s, MIGHT, just might say, "ahah! showering them with slightly subpar SBDs does two things: creates amazing good vibes for one and all, AND in fact increases demand for the fine tuned/extra good commercial releases".

These are the "data" I constantly lament are unavailable; I have read a number of scholarly tomes, not on the DEAD, but on DL/torrenting/etc in which the conclusion has been bands that take a hard line against all of this sharing HURT their profit margin...but we just have a bunch of speculation...


I know, I know--me hoping against hope...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 16, 2010 3:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Actually, TB, those as I outline below, I am on the fence, inclined toward a somewhat different take on Jerry, the material you quoted, and the larger issue discussed therein, is one that I took as NOT related to taping/exchange/etc., but much more to the "system" and their efforts to take control, make their own records, distribute them independent of the "system", and recognizing this, of course, did not fit with the original "summer of love" (all is free) approach, and necessarily had to backtrack in order to establish the precedent for their record co., etc., etc. Thus, I am not sure (again, pure speculation), that this is germane to the taping per se, but rather, the notion that there must be a means for musical sorts to make money, and they can't just be free wheeling artists giving everything away for nothing (though, contradicting himself, in other contexts, he did seem inclined to support a "system" [ie, "state"] run approach in which education, like art/music, would be supported since it benefits all...at least he and I would agree on that).

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Apr 16, 2010 7:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

actually this was the interview i was thinking of. I guess I interpret it differently than you, I think he is saying he should be paid to play and the music is not free and does not belong to the people. I have troubles believing that this statement was directed at the music industry.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Apr 16, 2010 8:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Oh no, I think you're right--he was in essence justifying (rightfully) that "hey, if we start a record co, we gotta make bread, and so the system works because we are gonna be a better system, etc., etc." (the whole RRecords attempt that failed of course).

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Apr 19, 2010 7:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: My Two Cents

For what it is worth (and that may be nothing):
I do agree that is sucks we can't get the SBD's anymore but the band has the total right to do what they want with their music, we should all be thankful they let people tape at all, to me it goes into a deeper issue that some fans think (I mean this with respect) that those SBD's are theirs and they own it maybe even entitled to it, not you Jose but from some comments read here over time. I feel that we should all be lucky that this band gave us this music and those that have the SBD's great, those that don't well hell you have do with the AUD's. A Band has a right to make as much money as they want and that is their right. You would not expect an electrician or landscaper to do work for free at your house, well the same is for musicians just with a different product. I feel lucky and blessed that I have those SBD's in my basement waiting to be transferred to cd, but I do download many of the AUD's. Sorry to go off on a tangent and don't mean to piss anybody off, we all have our opinions just throwin in my two cents on this matter

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Apr 19, 2010 12:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: My Two farthings

"You would not expect an electrician or landscaper to do work for free at your house, well the same is for musicians just with a different product."

as a self employed individual i can state that roughly a third of the hours i put in are non-billable...advertising, screening, meetings/site visits, quotations, recommendations, coordination, inventory, accounting, goodwill...supposedly this falls under the definition of "overhead" and is factored into the hourly rate, but the fact remains that clients that eventually enter into a contract end up paying for all the tire kickers that are shopping around for a deal (capitalism...)

perhaps even more so for musicians, a few make it big but the majority of professionals are lucky to make 5 bucks an hour once they factor in the time practicing their instruments on top of all the other time and expenses

in GD's case the promotion didn't cost them anything (the tapers did all the work) it was a good fit because the shows were so different from one another, there was no fear of losing ticket or album sales...they clearly benefitted from the taping arrangement (incl sbd's) Phil said so in his book and it has been stated one way or another in interviews going back to the early 80's ("If we ever did put out a good album, they would probably buy it anyways." - Jerry)

now they seem to be split as to whether or not this arrangement currently furthers their interests...fair enough, things change and they do have a right to respond as they see fit

however, only the largest of corporations or those that hold local monopolies (governments, utilities...) can hope to survive by needlessly offending clients, if "rules" are to be changed midstream then management better fucking well consult with clients every step of the way or it's tits up


believe WT recently brought up the point that we would not be here discussing the music (incl official releases) if the entire collection had not been re-instated as a direct result of the Nov 05 boycott

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Apr 19, 2010 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: My Two farthings

For the most part I agree with everyting you have stated, I am just trying to make the point that the decision was made we all have to deal with it and I guess I am tired of hearing all the complaining, it is what it is and this was done a while ago, just enjoy the music! Thanks for a great reply though to my post, you made some intelligent points, have a good one!

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Poster: BornEasement Date: Apr 16, 2010 5:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

why is the only question "What would Jerry do"? If you want to respect his wishes, stop turning love for music into monolithic idol worship. If you must, (and i know you must. I must too.) then worship his playing. Worship his singing. But just as you wouldn't find an economist or philosopher to play you music, don't turn to musicians for ethical business practices or the morality of intellectual possession. Jeez, these are the guys who hired Lenny Hart, right? And didn't Jerry die with a pile of debt and a quasi-legal divorce arrangement?

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 17, 2010 5:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

I don't understand your disappointment. But if your feelings about The Archive are that negative, the door does swing both ways. Don't let it hit ya' where the good Lord split ya'.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 6:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

it was nice to check in with the peanut gallery. it is simply amazing to read all of the responses. I can differentiate, from just reading one email, the immature kids and the older heads. the morons who replied back with smart ass comments are probably the same tools who ruined the scene. i wonder how many people who responded back have actually even seen the dead.
and by the way - i have every single show on cdr so here is to the obliviot who wrote back telling me he wont help me so i can save my bandwith - you are a loser.

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 19, 2010 9:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

It is quite possible, nay most probable, that you saw the band much more than I did. It is also quite possible that I was listening to them before you could walk unassisted. Age had nothing to do with my comment. It just seemed strange to me that you would come in the door, as it were, spewing negativity. And, in the final analysis, smartass is a judgment call. One man's "smartass" is anther's "satirical humor".

Peace to you, my brother.

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

you seem like you might have a clue so i will respond:
1) i came in "the door" many many years ago. it is not a competition but trust me
2) i was stating an observation. the negativity is rooted in dimwits having internet access coupled with a clogged "brain" to keyboard filter. translation - any idiot who can read can post here so i have had to deal with morons responding to my post. hippie64 (?) comes in 1st place

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Poster: groovernut Date: Apr 16, 2010 1:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Dude, chill. This site is da bomb!
You can still download else where. There are torrents for most things out there you just need to dig deeper brother.

Just like mining for gold it takes effort, the gold does not just jump up at you... and if it did?

Remember 6 years ago somebody opened a door for you and you had access to what we did not, now the tables have turned...

ahh life...

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

Bitter, party of one

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

OK. aside from this site - can someone send me a site where i can download every SBD from '73 - '74?
this site is a waste of bandwidth

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

But here is a question for you...
If Jerry were so "pro-taping" then why was the Jerry Garcia Band always a strict NO TAPING event. Plus, until the early 80s tapers were often harassed and booted by GD personnel. I know the quote about "after I'm done with it, they can have it" but I beleive this was taken out of context and doesn't apply to this situation. Jerry never lived in a world of instant downloads of 100% digital media. What would his opinion be? Can any of us know for sure? It's a different world now. Maybe he liked the whole idea of people networking together and TRADING the music - creating a community. What would he have thought of us sitting alone at a computer downloading his music and never having to have any human interaction?

Oh and this site (the entire INTERNET ARCHIVE) is one of the best uses of bandwidth in existance...


This post was modified by dogsinapile! on 2010-04-16 21:51:58

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Poster: jrose@duenorthmedia.com Date: Apr 19, 2010 6:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

this is just inherently wrong. instead of arguing every sentence, let me just say you are wrong from the first word to the last.
not picking on YOU, just that you are confused. trust me. i have been to about a hundred jgb shows in my time

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Apr 16, 2010 2:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: disappointing

I could but in the interest of saving your bandwidth I won't.

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